STAR WARS Conspiracy Theories
Posted on January 3, 2008 by Jonathan Carr, MIS | 57 Comments
My First Theory: Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader was only evil from the point he helped Palpatine kill Mace Windu (Episode III) to the point where Palpatine told Vader he had living offspring (Episode V). Before this period he was good as a boy and apprentice. After this period he was good and in cahoots with the Rebellion, giving Luke the needed training to become a Jedi Master. The only person who did not realize that Vader was good during this time period was Luke Skywalker. This was necessary because Luke had to believe he was fighting an evil Darth Vader to complete his training.
Why I feel this way: Vader first realized that Obi-Wan had reached immortality before he did when he cut Obi-Wan down in Episode IV and there was no body to step on. The Emperor then told him that Anakin had a son in Episode V. This was Vader’s transformation back to good when he says to the Emperor, “How is that possible?”
In the cloud city of Bespin, Vader has a sit down meal with the all the Rebellion leaders except for Luke. This was to discuss the strategy of Vader training Luke, the rendezvous point at Tatooine, and ultimately the attack on the new Death Star.
At the end of Episode V, Vader is clearly training Luke. He cuts his hand off exactly as he got his cut off in Episode II by Dooku. He even says, “Join me and we can destroy the Emperor.” This temptation along with the light-saber battle was necessary training for Luke to become a Jedi. Remember, a Jedi must defeat a Sith to become a master. Lets face it, if Vader wanted to, he could have killed Luke in seconds.
Vader knew Luke was on the shuttle and let it pass by to the forest moon of Endor. It was all part of the plan.
Vader stopped Luke from slaying down the Emperor in his chair because he knew that Luke would become evil if he killed the Emperor out of rage. Vader wasn’t guarding Palpatine here, he was protecting Luke.
Finally Vader gets his hand chopped off in the final training of Luke’s mastery. Vader gets the Emperor in his most vulnerable state ever while the lightning show was happening and then makes his move. It wasn’t here that he turned, it was well before as my theory suggests.
My Second Theory: Emperor Palpatine was Anakin Skywalker’s father.
Why I think this: Anakin is created through a miraculous and mysterious process from midi-chloriansin his mother’s womb. Emperor Palpatine tells Anakin that Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew. He then turns to Anakin in Episode III and smirks when he says, “Plagueis was so powerful he could even create life.”
This wouldn’t be the first time Lucas did an “I am your father scene.” Come on! You know it would have been cool if that happened. Everyone in the audience would have gotten wicked metallic chills in their seats.
My Third Theory: When Emperor Palpatine was telling Anakin about the Darth Plagueis Tragedy, he was foreshadowing the final scene of Return of the Jedi (Plagueis being Palpatine and Plagueis’ apprentice being Anakin).
Why I believe this: “Ironically he could save others from Dying(Vader saved Luke from the Force Lightning), but he could not save himself(Force Lightning shorting out his circuits).” I think this is to the “t” describing how Anakin was able to stop Luke from dying by throwing Palpatine down but couldn’t save himself from dying.
Palpatine tells Anakin that Plagueis killed his master just like Vader kills Palps and the foreshadowing is complete. One thing Palpatine loves to do is express how he foresees everything.
My Last Theory: The Emperor, in his fight with Mace, did not become scarred by his own force lightning. His scarred appearance was his true form bubbling up to the surface.
Why I feel this way: Dooku’s apprentice did this in the clone wars cartoon movies. It is a common Sith skill to disguise yourself. Palpatine disguised himself with a clean human appearance for the senate.
Do me a favor and watch the Plagueis Tragedy Explanation scene closely. Either I am going crazy or Palpatine’s left hand appears to be normal, while his right hand appears to be crippled and disfigured much like his true form, post-Mace battle.
The Emperor could have owned Mace if he wanted to. This is the third time Palpatine begs to be slayed because if a Jedi slays a Sith out of rage, the Sith comes out victorious in the end. Plus, Palps slayed three masters in three seconds before going one on one with Mace to set up the rope-a-dope show for the entering Anakin.
Sith eyes…Duh!..just like Anakin acquired. Palpatine was obviously disguising those..why not his scarred appearance too?
——————————–Disclaimer———————————————
All images taken from: www.starwars.com. All of the above conspiracy theories neither can be proven nor confirmed by George Lucas. They are simply paranoid scenarios which have drifted through my head during the millions of times I have watched the movies during multiple states of consciousness.
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57 Responses to “STAR WARS Conspiracy Theories”
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Love it. Parallels between Vader and Bilbo Baggins? Bilbo’s discovery of the ring (the Dark Side) coincides with his fall from Hobbit grace and thereby designs the process by which Sauron will have his enemies deliver the ring to him.
Proof: When Bilbo talks with Frodo in Rivendale in the Fellowship of the Ring he says, “Sorry to have brought you in on all this” meaning that he is sorry to have bestowed this fate upon his heir apparent, marking his turn back from the Dark Side as the ring is no longer in his possession.
You don’t seem to grasp the notion of a proof. A proof, beyond the shadow of a doubt, proves that which is to be shown. You need to show that it either can’t be any other way, or it’s impossible for it to be false.
For example,”Proof: This wouldnt be the first time Lucas did an “I am your father scene.” ”
This is *NOT* a proof. Not only did you fail to properly proofread and missed an apostraphe, but this is not a proof, it is a premise. Premises aren’t proofs, but proofs extend from premises.
The sums of the “proofs” you provide also do not equal a proof. You are still confusing the premises with the proofs. You need to extend the premises, and you have clearly failed to do so.
I am aware this is not a formal mathematical proof. This blog is a novelty blog. It holds no water and carries no weight. It is for people who want to agree or disagree with my logic, not my syntax. Do you have anything to say about my movie suspicions? Don’t worry I would not hand this in as an assignment.
I forgot how to do mathematical proofs about a decade ago once knowledge of geometrical theorems crystallized into scleroses on my brain.
The only thing I take issue with is I think Plagueis is Annakin’s father, not Palpatine. In Episode III Palpatine tells Annakin of Plagueis and that Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew, except this was a lie as Palpatine was unable to teach Annakin the secret of death prevention because he had not yet mastered that which Plagueis had prior to his death. Just my take on that particular conspiracy theory, I like it but I think you have the Sith lord incorrectly identified.
My time line could be way off, though, I’m not as familiar with the storyline as you are.
I think Palpatine knew very well how to cheat death via his cloning or getting slayed out of rage. I think telling Anakin that “if they work together they could discover the secret” was baiting Anakin so that he would do whatever the Emperor wants in exchange for stopping Padme from dying. Plagueis could be his father though…who knows!
Immaculate conception, I’ve heard of it somewhere else before…
Might as well talk about how Anakin could have been 33 years old when he sacrificed himself if you are going to go there. Could Padme = Magdaline? LOL just kidding..dont answer that!
OOh, boy, the parallels!
This sounds very interesting, the points you draw are either very interesting coincidences or very sneakily thought out hidden storylines, although Occam’s Razor points to the former.
The first one is bogus, if you ask me. Why? The proof about the Cloud City meeting. Why then did he want to “alter the deal” about who keeps the Princess and Chewbacca? Plus, they still mistrusted him. I don’t think that’s faking. Plus, the “allowing the rebels into Endor” was for the Emperor’s plan, as the Emperor “foresaw their doom,” if you ask me.
The second, I’ve been bought into for a long time.
The third sounds more like Lucas repeating himself, as well, but not a bad observation at all.
The fourth… I dunno what to believe. Yoda’s not that much better than Mace Windu, so Emp couldn’t have as easily “owned” Mace as you say. But I’m not sure whether he really does look like that or not.
Vader died when Luke cut off his hand and then spared him. It was the threat of losing Padme that drove Anakin to become Vader. It was the gaining of a Son(Padme’s legacy) that brought him back.
Also, it is the Sith way to kill ones own Master. Vader wanting to overthrow the Emperor proves nothing. Palpetine (then apprentice) Killed Plagueis (his master) and this pattern repeats itself throughout the expanded Star Wars universe. For one apprentice to kill his rival to gain the master’s favor is another form of Sith Darwinism so to speak (i.e. Anakin kills Dooku).
Vader returned to the light side because Luke proved that he could not be turned when he spared Vader. This made Anakin resurface because the only way he would regain any last echo of Padme was to rejoin the light side with his son.
All along, all Vader wanted was Padme – by any means necessary. His thirst for power and bending to the Emperors will was just a means of amasing the knowledge of the force to save her and then eventualy the power to rule side by side with his son which was all that remained of her.
The dark side is a metaphor for power’s ability to corrupt. It too hides itself behind the mask of good intentions until one day the victim realizes it has sacrificed everything it worked so hard to protect.
Vader could have killed the Emporer anytime – any place. His strength in the force was matched only by Luke. Deception was the Emporer’s true power and was the means he used to control Vader, blind the Jedi, keep the galaxy supressed with fear, and bend the Republic to his will.
The Emperor also lied to Vader about the ability to cheat death. He used cloning (the dark side is easier – faster – more aggressive). It was actually Qui Gon and eventually Obi Wan who learned to cheat death by merging with the force through meditation and this was why they were able to appear as vaporitions to those sensative enough to the force.
Then don’t waste people’s time with something you haven’t so much as proofread. It sticks out like a sore thumb.
Yeah, I’m gonna get laid while you tools all debate this !@#$. Buh Bye
I’m down with Vader secretly training Luke.
Here’s my question (and refer me to one of the episodes if I just missed the scene with the answer): So we see disembodied Anakin chilling with disenbodied Ben and Yoda at the end of Episode 6. Does Palpatine not have this skill? And did Anakin learn that skill before his switch to the Darkness?
Jake, if you have something to say about the ideas in this blog, I am more than willing to listen. Otherwise I feel as if you are being very negative by your comments thus far. Everyone else has given me the courtesy of expressing their beliefs about my opinions stated about STAR WARS. You are the only one who is obsessing about my grammar and syntax. Lighten up a little, we are all having fun with this one…sheesh.
Back to the meat of the discussion..
Im pretty sure Vader was in contact with Obi-Wan and Qui Gon well before he died at the end of Episode VI.
It also confuses me that Anakin didn’t fade away like Yoda or Obi-Wan at the time of his death.
Somewhere along the line he learned how to gain immortality as everyone else in that scene did at the end of Episode VI. I am not aware of Palpatine having this skill as I am pretty sure it is a Jedi trait.
Jack? Greg M? Any ideas?
Well Anakin might have faded away at the end of Episode VI. We really never see what happens to him as Luke leaves him dead at the bottom of the stairs to exit the Death Star right before it blows up. So Anakin could have faded away right before the Death Star blew up; its one of those things that is probably open for interpretation and we will never know exactly what happened.
Vader realized the power of the force and his ultimate mistake when he killed Obi Wan in Episode IV witnessing Obi Wan vanish into thin air and then all was clear to Vader….he had chosen the wrong side.
Andrew – I don’t think Anakin learned that skill before he went to the dark side. I hypothesize that because he redeemed himself at the end of VI he came full circle and was able to disembody himself, like Obi Wan and Yoda. It was only due to his transition back to the good side that he was able to become “The Force”, itself. Others might hypothesize that Darth was in constant communication with Obi Wan, following Obi Wan transition from life to supernatural . . . we unfortunately just do not know.
I’m gonna go with Greg’s theory on this one.
On a separate note: Jon, I think Jake is just trying to make the point that your post sticks out like a sore thumb in regards to format. The last thing you would want to do is confuse visitors by making them think this site doesn’t care about the quality of what is published. Plus your post is at 100% popularity – If anything it should be the standard by which all other posts are judged.
“We really never see what happens to him as Luke leaves him dead at the bottom of the stairs to exit the Death Star right before it blows up.”
So I halucinated the funeral pyre Luke held for Vader on Endor when he got back?
I understand completely Andrew. If I have made a mistake, silently let me know through an email, IM, or the Wiki so I can fix it quickly…don’t air it out and point it out to the world. Isn’t that a better solution?
I understand that strangers on the internet will not afford me this courtesy, but come on, Jake is a fellow author of Atlas.
With regard to the funeral pyre, we never see Anakin’s body, just his helmet and suit.
I don’t buy fully into theory 1. Rather, i think it was a slow process of questioning.
Remember Vader does hesitate, looking back and forth before finally deciding to chuck the emp.
There was definitely a funeral pyre at the end on Endor, But it we want to argue semantics… like 55% of Vader was mechanical in nature. So if the still human part of Vader/Annikan faded at his death, then we would have no more sign than his chest deflating a few inches. they could have been burning the Cyborg half.
Theorm: George Lucas has his head up his ass.
Proof: Episodes I, II, III, and Howard the Duck
I would like to comment about Vader’s demise and the presence of “Force Spirits”. Vader didn’t die instantly, Luke dragged his incapacitated dad onto the shuttle. While Luke is flying, his father, having redeemed himself to the light side, assumes the “force Spirit” state. Before you ask, yes there are both light and dark side versions, it just depends on the amount of power the individual had before death. The funeral pyre on Endor was more of a symbolic rite. Luke only burned his dad’s armor, thus erasing any last pieces of the evil man he had become.
After reading more books than I can shake a stick at, I’m pretty (99%) sure this is star wars canon, however, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
From my understanding it was Qui-Gon who first learned the “Force Spirit” ability (if you listen closely in Episode II, when it switches from Anakin’s assault on the Raiders and to Yoda you can hear him yell “Anakin! Anakin! Nooo!!”, and he taught it to Obi-Wan. Can anybody explain why we saw his body burn at the end of Episode I?
I also heard they were going to have a scene with Qui Gon’s spirit at the end of Episode III, but Liam Neeson (the actor) had a broken leg or something of the sort. Shame, too. Qui-Gon was my favorite character. I would’ve really enjoyed seeing him again.
As for the theorems: No. 1 seems far-fetched, No. 2 is very intriguing and a distinct possibility, No. 3 (intentionally done or not) is true…simple as that, and No. 4 I find the most interesting. I’m not sure why he’d have such an ‘unconventional’ natural appearance. I guess could explain it, but all-in-all I think this or the theory that is was the lightning is just a cover up or easy way for George to explain the chance in appearance from the first Episodes to the later Trilogy.
I’ve stumbled upon (StumbleUponed?) some great Star Wars theories recently. This is another great one. THe only problem I have with any of it is what about Leia? Was she in on the supper on Bespin? Does she know Vader is training Luke? Does she know she is Luke’s sister? Other than those questions, great points and ideas!
[...] In the past week I’ve read some interesting diatribes on what is really going on in Star Wars, especially in light of the events in the prequel trilogy. I think most of them basically presume George Lucas didn’t intend any of these alternative ideas, but they certainly work. Check out the crew at atlaseditorials for yet another interesting Star Wars conspiracy theory. [...]
i love star wars movies.
I liked this post – it was full of fun and interesting ideas. Thanks for making me think about Star Wars at work. It is way more fun than the spreadsheets I am currently “working” on…
Oh, and I won’t touch the Magdeline comment with a 40 foot pole!! Just thought the immaculate conception thing was good tongue in cheek humor. Alas, my sense of humor is severely distorted.
On viewing the original trilogy:
“Joseph Campbell was amazed at how well mythological themes had been incorporated into the films, and described it later, saying: ‘I tell you, I was really … thrilled. Here the man understands the metaphor. What I saw was things that had been in my books but rendered in terms of the modern problem, which is man and machine … That young man opened a vista and knew how to follow it and it was totally fresh.’ (The Hero’s Journey [San Francisco, 1990], p. 181-182). Lucas had read “The Hero with a Thousand Faces” while working on the script of the first of the Star Wars movies, and had gone on to read the “Masks of God” and other writings. When Star Wars debuted in 1977, it followed the Hero very closely. Lucas said at an award ceremony in 1985, ‘It is possible that if I hadn’t run across him I’d still be writing Star Wars today.’ ”
http://www.online.pacifica.edu/cgl/lucas
Parallels between Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Shakespeare, The Matrix, The New Testament, Undercover Brother, etc…all epic stories that truly absorb the viewer tend to follow the same basic formula – same basic archetypal characters following the same basic story arc.
Haha, I don’t know if you could describe Undercover Brother as ‘epic’. But nice try slipping that one in there!
In my opinion Anikin did not have the power to become spirit. Luke was taught it by Yoda. The ritual of burring Vadars armor is when Luke used the force to reclaim Anikin fully to the light. Anikin did not appear until after that. You see him fade in with Yoda and Ben. It was through Luke’s forgiveness that it happen. By himself Anikin was lost, it was through Luke’s light that he was redeemed. Luke was the greatest master, he truly and gracefully walked in the light.
I did not read through all of the replies, so if I repeat something forgive me.
Here is why ALL the “theories” are wrong. It’s a Hollywood movie meant to cast the widest net. What you see is what you get. This means EVERYTHING must be pointed out to every member of the audience. If any of these were to be true there would be a defining moment that would let EVERYONE in on the secret, not just a few (e.g. “Good one Luke I’ve been secretly training you this whole time.” “Golly Gee Dad that’s swell!”)
I believe you are finding patterns where there are none. Besides, I don’t think Lucas has the guile to pull off any of these.
Magilla, I understand where you are coming from, however, I find Star Wars to be very open for interpretation. Isn’t it fun to read in between the lines once in a while?
Very interesting. However, I don’t find all of them totally believable.
The first theorem is probably the most believable of all, mostly because it is entirely possible if Vader was able to conceal his feelings from the Emperor. He wasn’t completely successful, though, as the Emperor did become suspicious at one point.
Then again, I rather doubt that Anakin could have come up with a plan that elaborate. I mean, look how long it took for Palpatine to take over the galaxy.
The second theory is completely illogical by the simple fact that Palpatine is not Plagueis, but rather his former apprentice. Palpatine is in fact Darth Sidious. It was his former master, Plagueis, who created Anakin, and that was as an experiment. Plagueis had theorized that if he used the force to create life, then it would be the very embodiment of the force, quite similar to the nature of Jesus Christ. Although, still susceptible to human faults (possibly because while the Force has a will of its own, it is not a conscious being like you or I, and therefore is unfamiliar with the nature of humanity; it has certain rules that it follows).
The third theorem is also a bit far fetched. Palpatine had one goal, and one goal only: To attain power and hold on to it for as long as he could, and when he could keep it no longer, he would turn it to a Sith apprentice. He did not want to be killed at all, and I rather doubt he saw that happening.
The last theorem… well, I agree with you there, it’s completely obvious that it’s true. Although, I have my own theory regarding the Sith eyes. I believe that it is a result of pure, concentrated rage mixing with the Force, causing a reaction in the midi-chlorians that changed the color of the eyes to a garish yellow.
Wolfgang, so it is your position that Plagueis created Anakin? That is interesting and it sounds like you do your homework. I am willing to change my belief from Palpatine creating Anakin to either Palpatine or Plagueis creating him.
Eh, Wookiepedia knows all.
After so many years of discussion it’s nice to see some original thoughts about the series.
As to your theory that Vader is only evil from mid episode 3 to mid episode 5. I don’t buy it. Lets examine your ideas.
“Obi-Wan disappears when Vader strikes him down”: Perhaps this is a function of Vader’s power of his lightsaber is just “overclocked”.
At any rate observing that someone has obtained immortality and then being told you have a son is hardly the kind of impetus normally that normally results in a morality shift. We’re talking about a guy that doesn’t file for income tax, this man slew pre-teens.
“Conversation at Bespin”: We don’t know what they discussed. An event that we cannot experience cannot be used as evidence for anything in particular.
“Vader spares Luke during their fight in Empire”:
This is true.
However, a desire to kill ones boss and refraining from murdering your own son does not preclude evil.
One of the cornerstones of evil in most evil people is ambition.
He wants to kill the emperor to (as said with a clenched fist) “rule the galaxy”. It sounded pretty wicked to me.
“Vader lets the rebel ship pass to Endor without stopping it”:
Because he wants to find out Luke’s decision.
Remember that the entire mission would have failed and a vast percentage of the rebels would have died were it wasn’t for a bunch of furries mistaking a protocol droid for a god.
One might think a “good” Vader would have less men guarding that shield generator.
“Vader stopped Luke from slaying the Emperor in his chair because Luke would have become evil”:
If good guys become evil through evil acts then certainly Vader is already evil again even if he was good one fleeting moment.
After the point you claim he becomes good doesn’t he strangle an Admiral or two? Even if that happened beforehand, lets consider other actions that definitely take place afterwards:
Hires bounty hunters, takes over and essentially shuts down a peaceful community (cloud city), allows the torture of Han Solo, risks the life of Solo by encasing him in carbonite, attempts to encase Luke in carbonite, blugeons his son and chops off his hand.
Surely if he is now “good” he can see that the way he was trained led to him being evil, why would he repeat the process with his son?
That aside there are other logical reasons for him to defend the Emperor:
A. If the emperor survived the attack he’d do everything in his power to kill them both.
B: If the Emperor dies, Luke might attack and kill him too.
“Vader gets the Emperor in his most vulnerable state ever while the lightning show was happening and then makes his move.”:
Or maybe Vader is evil but Luke wants him to find the good that is still within him. Heck that’s not even subtext Luke says just that at least twice.
Vader is a complex guy. There’s being evil and there’s watching a wicked old guy (that probably killed your wife) maniacally torture your son.
Once again this is not subtext, Luke calls out for help, Vader gives the Emperor a “look” and the music swells up.
Dramatically it just makes more sense to be turned to good through a dramatic scene rather than pensively observing “I’ve got a son? How’s that possible”.
Also its highly likely that the Emperor would have noticed a change in Vader prior to his being distracted.
Palpatine is Vader’s father:
I love it. This is actually the rational explanation but I do have a couple problems with it.
A: Why have a kid the normal way? Perhaps he’d be stronger with the force this way?
B: Why have him raised by a kindly woman on some remote desert planet?
Surely he could have done much better in grooming a son?
Well even though I only sort of buy one of your theories I like them all. Lucas should have hired you to write the scripts. What a great scene it would have been is Palpatine said “Anakin, I am your father”.
I find this all very fascinating!
The first theory I find difficult to reconcile with Anakin/Vader’s actions throughout the movies…. I think from the time he finds out he has progeny and a piece of Padme still living it makes him start to question himself and the emperor ultimately saving his son.
The second theory I also find difficult from a chronological standpoint….then again its possible that Sidious had been cloning himself for years before he was able to gain power, something I will have to look into and think on.
The third theory I don’t really have any impressions other than it sounds plausible.
The final theory I have a few thoughts on as well. I can get behind the idea that he was disguising his true character behind a concerned senator it is only in the form it takes…. for instance it has already been pointed out that he used clones, so what if the constant use of dark side powers naturally corrupts and destroys the physical form of those who use it. He just figured out a way to circumvent the decay of his own body by replacing it constantly with a new clone ready for him to move into (I take this from some of the books I have read).
I also had a few points I wanted to throw out there since they were briefly touched on in the subsequent discussions.
1. Luke was not a master until after he was turned to the dark side and then turned back by Leia and Han…. he was only a Jedi Knight in Return of the Jedi.
2. By Lucas’ own admission he ranked the most powerful Jedi/Sith at the time as Anakin, Emperor, and Yoda at least until Anakin was put in the suit and then it went Emperor, Vader, and Yoda, with Luke trailing in at 4th. I don’t believe that the Emperor could have killed Mace as quickly as was stated he just caught them off guard and it is also plausible that they weren’t all jedi masters. I know this is not a popular belief but taking into account Mace was considered the best saber user second only to Yoda primarily due to Yoda’s extensive knowledge of the force and the fact that the emperor didnt exactly wipe the floor with yoda speaks volumes of how close they all were in ability….I could go on but I feel I’m getting boring and this is just for fun anyway…thanks a bunch!
Chris, not boring at all! You raise excellent points. My gut instinct told me to run with an, “Anakin, I am your father” scene. When I was watching the movie in the theater, I was on the edge of my seat waiting to hear those words which would have plot twisted the entire audience…just like in Episode V.
You observation of how close in ability Mace, Palps, and Yoda seems is spot on. I still find it hard to believe that Mace gave Palps a good fight.
I only wish the special effects of today were available in the original trilogy. Only then could we see how insanely skilled Vader really was.
Thanks for dropping by and keeping the post alive Chris!
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That is one of the most original theories I have heard. Damn you you did a great job delving deep into this one. This is the kind of stuff I love to read.
Thank you for your kind words Jim.
As soon Lucas gets on the act with Bluray and all the rest of you Muppets can keep your sodden Bluray because I will not be milked over again by that double chin fat bloated little greedy git of wanker!
He had my last £15.00 pounds a few years ago, that I managed to get changed over for another DVD because there was no way I was keeping that shameless episode IV of crap o the DVD shelf!
Yeah I bet he’ll never ever, ever will give you the 70mm six-track Dolby stereo version with the baby boom tracks, that double fat chin bloated little greedy git of wanker!
[...] effectively convince everyone else you’re watching it with that Vader had intentions of taking down the Empire once he learned that he had children in Episode [...]
Back to Magilla…I believe all movies are made to be open to interpretation. If they were not there would be no point in shooting an entire movie at all but just to have someone sum up what happens through-out the movie to you. The point of a movie is to entertain and have you continually thinking about the movie anyway possible even if that way is to come up with theories about what not is said.
Well said Tyler!
As to why didn’t Palpatine raise Anakin as his son, to have an easier time grooming him…
…Palpatine knows if he’s going to bring down the Jedi he needs someone within the Jedi. And, as we can see from Tyranus, Palpatine found the use of turning former Jedi to the darkside.
…BUT if he were to see Anakin enrolled as a child in the Academy, and ultimately have his nature of the Chosen One revealed, it would likely turn the attention of the Council towards Palpatine, who would at the time ‘just happen’ to be ascending through the ranks to become Supreme Chancellor.
…as well, if there’s any emphasis from the Council to seperate trainee Jedi from their family, Palpatine would be cut off from Anakin, making Anakin his advisor would seem like nepitism, etc.
But back to the top…you have to kill a Sith to become a Master?? So…there has only been one Master Jedi from the apperance of Darth Bane till now (assuming you can’t kill both Sith and have the line continue).
Velzhaed, great insight…
Now that I think about it, you are right. Killing a Sith is not a requirement to achieve the rank of Jedi Master. Howerver, if a Jedi apprentice does defeat a Sith, then major bonus points are awarded.
I guess I was going off Obi Wan defeating Maul, and Luke defeating Vader (both became master afterward). Not quite sure what I was thinking lol…thanks again!
I find the first theory highly implausible; most of the reasons have been listed above. However, one of the largest is this; Star Wars is not a traditional Sci-Fi movie. Most have a heavy handed lopsidedness towards a whole lot of action, or an overcomplicated plot. These movies are more of a fairy-tale in space, especially the originals. I can see minor “Easter eggs” and such being scattered throughout, but nothing so major as this would have gone through. This one is just too big to be behind the scenes.
I also find the second theory to be a bit far-fetched. The most obvious point being how remote Anakin was from the rest of civilized space and not being gobbled up immediately. The counter argument has already been made, but it doesn’t explain how Palpatine “discovered” him. Darth Sidious wanted desperately to keep Padme on Naboo in order to gain the sympathy vote. He likely wanted to cast it the vote of no confidence himself, in her stead, in order to real in sympathy and show his boldness. He could not have anticipated their escape, nor their sheer luck landing on Tatooine for repairs. Also, when Darth Maul told him that the ship was on Tatooine, he didn’t react at all. Therefore, if this is true, it means that Palpatine had no idea where Anakin was, lending support to it being Plagueis’ plan, but that still strikes me as unlikely, because finding him, on Tatooine no less, is the greatest coincidence, probably in the entire Star Wars expanded universe.
Again, I’m not so sure. I think the Whole Plagueis chat is a ploy they used to finally shed some light about the inner workings of the Sith in one of the movies. I’ve always felt that the last movie was kinda thrown together, trying to tie up too many loose ends in not enough time. Aside from the fact that Sith are evil and there’s two of them, nothing else has been said about them in any previous movie. This is their way of getting to the basics of Sith lifestyle for the more casual fans, to let them know how the Sith mind and power structure work without making it too obvious or boring those of us who already know.
I do, however, whole heartedly agree on your final theory. In fact, that was the first thing I thought when I saw this scene…. Well second I guess. Again, it seems obvious from a practical standpoint that it is yet another tool for tying up another loose end, namely, why he looks so much different. But I think it goes beyond that. It is known that certain dark arts deform the body, and Palpatine made it his goal to explore all of them. I see Palpatine as one of the most versatile Sith there ever was, and I think that he was quite week with the force in most respects. As many people know, each Jedi excels in a particular field, be it medicine, piloting, saber discipline etc. I believe Palpatine’s only gift was that of deception. His only innate force ability being the ability to mask himself from the Jedi. He then gathered to himself all the techniques he could, allowing himself a broad repertoire for whatever situation might arise. Of course, he couldn’t simply go to work one day after learning a new technique looking like he had aged into his twilight years, he had to disguise himself. That must have taken constant concentration, not much, but some. Therefore, during his duel with Mace, he began losing control. He then used the lightning, which would require even more focus. When he got hit with it, it was simply too much… perhaps. I find it equally possible he simply dropped the disguise at this point in time, for several reasons. Firstly, he no longer needed it. Also, it would arouse sympathy, not only from Anakin, but also the rest of the senate after seeing how Mace had supposedly attacked him. Either way, in no other cases has it been shown that the lightning can accelerate the aging process.
Finally, as for the little side debate on the “Force Ghosts”, I know of at least one case of a Sith mastering the technique, with his own flair, of course. A certain trilogy of books was written wherein a new student to Luke’s newly formed academy is taken in by the ghost of an incredibly powerful Sith Lord called Exar Kun. He turned not one but two of Luke’s students and tore Luke’s soul from his body. I this state, only the Solo twins could see Luke, and he acted through them to protect his body from Exar Kun’s attacks. This shows that Sith can attain the power. But remember, Qui-Gon did not disappear, so it is not a prerequisite of this power. Personally, I have previously felt that Anakin had disappeared under the armor, but now feel that his soul was taken in by the other masters and shown how to use the technique.
John, welcome and thank you for such a great comment!
A lot of fans do not agree with us on my last theory. They swear that Mace was owning Palps. I think not…after slaying 3 masters of the jedi council and backing Mace up to the broken glass, he simply staged the rope-a-dope when he felt Anakin’s presence approaching.
Definitely. Firstly, just think of the dueling between Dooku and Anakin, who is the 1st or second greatest duelist the Jedi had. Dooku was of similar skill, and who taught him? I don’t remember him being particular acknowledged for his saber skills before turning. And, generally speaking, the teacher is more powerful than the student, unless he has much more natural talent. In addition, I believe Mace was fighting much blinder than usual. Jedi strongly rely upon the force while dueling, passively taking in warnings and predicting your opponent’s next move. For one force wielder to annihilate 3 of 4 others so quickly is unprecedented. I believe Palpatine was using his powers to block their “precognition”, I can see no other way to so soundly trounce so many at once and then face one of the greatest sword masters the council has ever seen. I believe he either only survived as long as he did because of Mace’s lack of precog, or he allowed him to live as long as he did because he needed something to push Anakin over to the next level, and not much else could do that aside from destroying a fellow Jedi.
that i belive is true
i think palpatine help anakin in defeating count dooku…because he wanted anakin to become his new apprentice…like wise…when luke defeats vader…in episode five palpatine knows how luke is so powerfull it can destroy them (palpatine and vader) …as in return of the jedi palpatine quoted he’s getting stronger(luke) as palpatine talks to vader while walking on his arrival in the 2nd death star
Excellent point Ben!